Comments on Mokuren Dojo: Judo is dead in Japan

I compare watching olympic judo with watching a be...

2008-09-02T16:45:00.000-05:00

I compare watching olympic judo with watching a ben stiller movie. You hold you head down the whole time, embarassed about whats on the screen.

Someone mentioned general breakdowns in martial arts and I agree, Judo has become the new Taekwondo, watching olympic taekwondo is like having teeth pulled...out of your thigh...

Pat,
Good points raised in that other post.
...

2008-09-01T21:45:00.000-05:00

Pat,
Good points raised in that other post.

Depending on what rules the IJF will change, the dynamism between those two ideas may get narrowed a bit.

I see a certain amount of healthy tension between the traditional and sport elements in judo. But many people want that tension to go away (see the forum I mentioned) in favor of traditional, especially after the last Olympics.

These two aspects are what makes judo such a great art. without both of them, I don't think I'd be learning the art.

IMO people had better be careful that they don't kill off what makes the art appealing.

Good points, Formosa Dave, but I think the contra...

2008-09-01T10:48:00.000-05:00

Good points, Formosa Dave, but I think the contrast between purity and pragma is a good thing. It helps to keep you steered in the right direction and also helps you stay grounded in reality.

You have to promote both the ippon ideal as well as the sufficient proficiency ideal. see my earlier article at:

http://www.mokurendojo.com/2007/12/ippon-ideal-vs-sufficient-proficiency.html

Give me a break.

These people arguing abou...

2008-08-31T07:48:00.000-05:00

Give me a break.

These people arguing about "Japanese judo" can't even keep there own argument straight.

On the one hand, they want everyone to play "ippon judo" but that is attacking-style judo with big throws. Then on the other hand, they want to decry people not playing defensively and using people's force against them.

They criticize players that go for pickups even though morote-gari and kata-garuma are in Mifune's Cannon of Judo (he's the poster boy for their style).

Then to top it all off, they have the gall to criticize other players (always Westerners) for being "too defensive" and relying on sacrifice throws that -- now get this -- USE THE OPPONENT'S FORCE AGAINST THEM.

You can look at any thread on judoforum.com to see loads of this.

Basically the problem is that the foreigners have learned too much and the Japanese can't stand it. Nobody outlawed ippon. It's right there for people to score.

It's one of those "he won but..." arguments where the guy isn't breaking any rules but he's beating people that aren't supposed to get beaten. So the rules have to be tweaked to ...ahem...prevent that little discretion.

But don't mind me...:)

One of my early training buddies was this huge Jud...

2008-08-31T01:47:00.000-05:00

One of my early training buddies was this huge Judo national player, and he told me of the massive amounts of politics within his game - and also of the fact they promoted him to black belt because he was huge and strong and needed a BB to compete in some international tournament. Yet he hadn't really learned many of the things he needed for that level and like you said often relied on his strength to pull him through the day.

Colin

From what little I know (and I stress "little"), t...

2008-08-30T11:43:00.000-05:00

From what little I know (and I stress "little"), the judo I watched in this year's Olympics looked a LOT different than the tapes of Mifune and his students you showed me before. It really does look different with Tori leading Uke off-balance than forcing him there. I also completely agree with Dan as far as most people just doing it to win some game and doing what they need to within the confines of the rules to win.

Frankly, the situation doesn't surprise me. We al...

2008-08-30T07:03:00.000-05:00

Frankly, the situation doesn't surprise me. We all have dreams--well, some of us have dreams, anyway--of seeing widespread participation in our martial arts, done the way they're supposed to be, but the horrible reality is that most people just aren't interested in learning the real thing. Most people are just more interested in winning a game and having some fun. If they can delude themselves that what they are learning will be valuable for self-defense against someone bigger and stronger and/or better-armed than they are, so much the better. But the game comes first.

And you know, that's fine for them. Each to his own, y'know? To my mind, there will always be people interested in the old techniques and methods--just not very many.

I think that is very interesting... I'm learning c...

2008-08-30T06:09:00.000-05:00

I think that is very interesting... I'm learning chin na from a bunch of ex karate guys (1st - 3rd dans) who now are devoted to Praying Mantis and chin na.

One of the reasons for their devotion to their given arts is the sports dilution in many of the other arts. Now I know Wikipedia is a questionable source but I thought this little gem might add to your post:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judo

"BJJ is closer to the original early 1900s judo than current Olympic judo is."

Another version of the taekwondo effect?