A good day

The tournament I went to watch this morning was interesting. I ended up being asked to help out as the scorekeeper for the kids' kata divisions and I saw a lot of cute kids. Afterward the grappling competitions were still going on and I watched some hard-fought matches in the gi and no-gi rings. Some things I noticed...

• It was well-attended. I was able to identify Madison Wrestling and Team Hopkins players. I also saw folks there from Brookhaven, Hazelhurst, Meridian, and of course, from McComb.
• The grappling I saw seemed to be mostly won on points rather than submissions. There was relatively little clearly-defined technical grappling.
• Again, just in the part I watched, there was almost no throws or takedowns. folks ended up on the mat either by mutual consent (they just knelt into the ground) or they fumbled a leg pick and ended up falling into a non-dominant position.
• I don't think I saw anyone choked to submission, though there were a lot of rear-naked chokes thrown as well as some guillotines and sleeve-wheel chokes. Funny thing - folks kept slipping out of these chokes. I'm not sure if it's because these competitors were that good at defending chokes or if they were that bad at applying them?
• The three skills you go to a grappling tournament to see: throws, chokes, and jointlocks. There were no attacks to the leg joints thrown at all, and there were no successful armlocks in the matches I saw.
• Lest I sound negative, let me re-iterate: it was a pretty good tournament - well attended, well-referreed, good attitudes from the competitors, and nobody got hurt (that I saw). That makes for a good day of fun.

What you are getting yourself into

To spend even a few minutes around wrestling is to understand one of its immutable laws: People get hurt. This isn’t by accident; it’s by design... [These arts] inflict immense amounts of pain and suffering ..., often by means that look outright cruel but in fact are the product of months of hard labor spent in perfecting the technical aspects ... If you should quit, be it mentally or physically, and you are still at some indeterminate midpoint ... then you stand roughly a 99% chance of getting hurt. (Mark Kreidler, Four Days to Glory)

There is, to my way of thinking, an unusual trend in American martial arts. Folks get into the arts without fully understanding that they might be setting themselves up for injury. These same kids will sign up for football knowing that it will be rough and tough and painful. Their parents understand this too. We all know folks that have been hurt playing contact sports. But then we sign up for a martial arts class (supposedly a class on how to fight) and we don't expect it to be rough.

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My instructors have always made it abundantly clear that there is no chance involved - if you practice these arts you will eventually be injured. Hopefully later, but maybe sooner. I tell all of my students in writing the dangerous nature of the activity. Note also the disclaimer at the bottom of this page – it is not just for decoration…

The contents of this website are for informational purposes only. Do not mistake any of this information for advice.

Martial arts training is a physical contact activity in which there is risk to the participants. Practice is frequently very physically strenuous and mentally and emotionally challenging. Participation can result in injuries or damages of any sort, including permanent disability, deformity, or death. Sometimes the risks are not even foreseeable by trained experts.

It would be wise of you to obtain the help of a qualified instructor and have a physician examine you and clear you for strenuous physical contact activity before you try any of these very dangerous activities. Always inspect the practice area, the equipment, your partners, and yourself for risks before starting. Your participation is voluntary, so if you see something that you think is unsafe you should immediately tell the instructor and decline to participate in that activity. Always work within your own limits.

In fact, one of my instructors, when repeatedly asked about starting 3 and 4 and 5 year-olds in karate classes eventually began responding, "Would you give your child a handgun for Christmas?" And after seeing their horrified responses he would tell them, "Well, this is the same thing because in this class, I teach people to kill other people."

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While I would not go that far (I do not teach people to kill other people) the violent physical contact activities we practice and experiment with in class are derived from battlefield sciences that were designed and evolved to injure and kill.

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You can't go into this thing without knowing what you are getting yourself into.

Dan Gable, the man, the legend

The first half of this film is composed of clips of Gable-trained wrestlers competing. You can see some of Dan Gable's intensity and aggression in them. You can see it in the close-up of the tremors in his arm. The second half is a short piece of a documentary on Gable. The man, the legend, the demigod of wrestling.

Dan Gable on aggression

Here is a short segment with Dan Gable talking about the role of aggressiveness in wrestling. This really applies to all competitive fight sports like boxing, MMA, etc... The idea is simple. All other things being equal (and I know they never are) the more aggressive fighter will win. Why is this? Two reasons are apparent:

• The rules are designed to promote a type of fighting that is interesting to the observers. These rulesets award aggression
• Sun Tzu said, "Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the Attack." He recognized years ago that this is just the way things are. This is reflected at times throughout history, from Gretzky saying, "you will miss 100% of all shots you don't take," to Neitzsche writing about the Will to Power.
  
  
  

Dan Gable - it's personal

Dave at Formosa Neijia hit the nail on the head in this following comment to my previous post, pointing out exactly the topics that this book has me wanting to talk about.

...grappling is an intimate sport. It's not like standing back and hitting or kicking ...the tradition there is just so strong that getting second feels like failing...it may be an over-emphasis on the sport/winning aspect. Look At Dan Gable now. He's broken. Winning is fine, but is it everything? Are we going to gaze at our trophies from our wheelchairs?

Speaking of Dan Gable now, and gazing at trophies, check out this video...

It's personal

Mark Kreidler describing Dan Gable's mother...

Kate was every bit as hard-willed as one would expect a parent of Dan Cable to be...

"It was so hard on her," Gable says now... "She'd go stand outside the room when I wrestled, just go outside in the foyer. She'd come back to the door every now and then to look through the glass, but she couldn't stay in the gym.

Gable pauses, "This sport, it's a heart-wrenching sport...I'll be at the State Tournament this month, and I'll guarantee I'll choke up. I'll feel so good for the guy who is winning the championship - he earned it, it's finally there. But then you look over at the wrestler he just beat to win it, and that guy is crushed. And I just choke up for that guy. It's personal.

What is is about competitive martial arts in general and grappling sports in particular that seems to engender this kind of attitude... this type of identification of self-worth with performance outcomes? I can remember winning second place in the Mississippi State championships and third place in Louisiana years ago - but did I feel like a winner? No, I felt like a loser. Second or third best.

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The above quote comes from Four Days to Glory by Mark Kriedler. A study of the midwest wrestling ethos. I don't know that it really answered my question, but it was an entertaining read that certainly delves into the personal side of amateur wrestling in the parts of America where wrestling counts for a lot.

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If it sounds like something you'd like to read, please get your copy from my Amazon bookstore...

Regional popularity of wrestling

One of the things that I asked Gene LeBell about in my recent interview was the reason for the regional popularity of judo and wrestling. Judo is far more popular in Europe than in the U.S.A., and amateur wrestling is only popular in some regions of the U.S., like the midwest, while being almost completely unknown in other regions, like the south. Why is this? Gene attributed it to lack of publicity and I'm sure that's part of it, but the topic comes up in a book that I'm reading, Four Days to Glory, by Mark Kreidler. Kreidler writes...

Wrestling long ago became a surrogate for many Iowans' perceptions of themselves, particularly those that spent days working the land. It was basic and it was predicated on strength of body and strength of mind; and just about anybody could learn to do it. Iowa got better at it than anybody else. And over time that became a calling card in itself, something that did distinguish the state. It became a thing to be cherished and appreciated and bragged upon...
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...Iowans cling to it more fiercely than ever. It is, for lack of a more benign way of putting it, their heritage... It goes back to the roots, goes back to the rural...
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...the sport succeeded in the small towns, in the way that schoolboy football did in Texas and basketball in Indiana. It wasn't that nobody else did it; it was that Iowans decided to adopt it. They gave wrestling a place of importance that it would not be granted in very many parts of the country, and in turn, Iowa became known as a place that not only loved the sport, but produced its finest competitors...

I thought this was an interesting description of the type of regional phenomenon I was talking about. I will have some further posts related to this interesting book. If you enjoy wrestling or sports writing or reading about the competitive ethos in rural America, I'd recommend the book. If you want a copy, please pick one up at my Amazon bookstore:

Mokuren Interview: 'Judo' Gene LeBell

I am pleased to present the latest in our series of interviews with great martial artists here at Mokuren Dojo. Today we had the opportunity to talk to grappling legend, Gene Lebell. From his website: “In a 50+ year career of high falls and fist fights, ‘Judo’ Gene LeBell has crashed cars, jumped motorcycles, wrestled bears, incited riots and fought some of the toughest men in the world. He was an AAU National Judo Champion and a Professional Wrestling World Heavyweight Champion at a time when wrestling was more about survival than show business… He was there during the "Golden Years" of martial arts growth in the U.S.”

Patrick Parker: Hey, I love that patch you are wearing on your left sleeve in the picture above. It’s hard to see in this picture, but if it's the patch I'm thinking of, it is a cartoon of a guy in a lion’s mouth with the caption, “When in doubt, Choke him out!” A few years back my teacher, Karl Geis, gave me one of those patches and I loved it!

Your bio on your webpage says that at age 20 you had 14 years of hardcore training behind you, including some grappling with Ed "Strangler" Lewis, who is credited with inventing the sleeper hold. Is that where you got your fabulous rear choke?

Gene Lebell: The 1st time I learned it, yes it was from Ed Lewis. Since then there have been many variations in the world, from which I have learned to do it from the sides, the front, etc. They are in my Encyclopedia of Grappling, Finishing Holds for those who want to learn them.

Patrick Parker: Who do you think were the greatest judo teachers you ever got to learn from?

Gene Lebell: In the U.S. Shig Tashma, Larry Coughran, Kenneth Kinyuki, Fuji Nazawa (who just died 2 days ago), and of course I learned a lot from training in Japan (Ishikawa), most are listed and pictured in "The Godfather of Grappling" book.

Patrick Parker: You mentioned your Godfather of Grappling and Encyclopedia of Grappling books... What do you think is the role of books in training? Since you've got to lay hands on a real guy to learn to grapple, how much of what kinds of things do you think folks can learn from a book or a website? What is the best way to learn something when you don't have face-to-face access to an expert?

Gene Lebell: Of course it is always better to work with an expert, but how often can you do that or afford it. As an alternative you use students of the experts, then videos or books. And there is no substitute for getting on the mat and experimenting and trying things to see what works for you and what doesn't.

Patrick Parker: It seems that judo is not as popular in America as it is in other countries, and amateur wrestling is only popular in certain regions of the United States. What do you figure is behind this regional popularity? What do you think we would have to do to grow judo and amateur wrestling in the United States?

Gene Lebell: Publicity. For example - Newspapers have results from horses, basketball, tennis, golf, but not the martial arts results. The people that are not good competitors become politicians, but they need to push the martial arts more. Every tournament and event should be publicized somewhere.

Patrick Parker: You've had so much experience in judo, wrestling, boxing, and jujitsu. Which of these arts seems to you to be the best way to start young children (like ages 6-8)?

Gene Lebell: I would say tumbling, gymnastics. Then if they fall off their bike they have less of a chance of getting hurt because they know how to move through the air. Then Judo and grappling involve all the skills from tumbling. Everyone should have background in boxing, judo, and wrestling.

Patrick Parker: There's been some hoopla in the news and on the blogsites lately about getting young kids involved in serious MMA competitions - do you figure that is a good thing or a bad thing?

Gene Lebell: It is a good thing if they are having fun. Less injuries occur on the mat than on a skateboard in the middle of the street.

Patrick Parker: Does it seem to you like our American society is predominantly becoming tougher and more Spartan/Bloodsport or are we becoming softer by pampering ourselves with excessive rules lawyering in contact sports?

Gene Lebell: As a whole - softer. Kids are not allowed to learn to defend themselves in the school yard. Everyone cries for a lawyer when they look at each other wrong. Men that can defend themselves and their families seem to be disappearing. That is why the MMA is a great thing and popular. It reminds men what men are and women what they are missing out on.

Patrick Parker: Folks call you the toughest man alive. Where do you think that toughness comes from? Is it more of a mental attitude or some physical skills you've learned or an inborn trait?

Gene Lebell: It isn't how you play the game, it's the final score that counts. A hundred years from now nobody knows how you won, only if you did or didn't. What I call a 2nd is the 1st loser. Toughness is mental and physical. You must be fanatical to put in the necessary amount of work to succeed.


Thank you so much, Gene, for sharing your thoughts with my readers and me. There is so much great info here that I’m sure they will appreciate. I know that I, for one, can hardly wait to lay hands on your two books that you mentioned.

For more info on the Legendary Judo Gene LeBell,

or to buy copies of his books,

check out his websites,

www.GeneLeBell.com and www.ValleyMartialArts.com

The Granby

Even with all my nice talk about "knowledge is not power - knowledge shared is power..." This clip is so good that it hurts me to share this. This is a video clip of some awesome wrestling, and if you back off a touch, what you see is a good offensive application for ukemi skills in judo or even aikido. Check out these guys' great ground mobility. If you want to begin playing this stuff in judo or aikido, uke had better be rolling and blending compliantly or he's going to eat a lot of energy and break corners off of his body.

Wrestling vs. boxing

So, who would win? A wrestler or a boxer? If you forgive, at least for the sake of argument, the incredible stupidity of this question, you might find the following video clip interesting.

Submission grappling in McComb, MS

Doggone it! How is it that I missed this event that was apparently hosted right here in McComb? I wonder if Madison Wrestling is putting on this event on a recurring basis?

Creativity in the heat of the moment

To me, the really impressive competitors are not the ones that can get their tokuiwaza (best/favorite throw) in a lot of situations, but the ones that invent the majestic perfect ippon throws on the spur of the moment with such unexpected, unusual motion that the opponent (and every observer in the arena) is totally surprised.

These competitors don’t appear to throw named judo techniques – rather they just adapt to the opponent, pick him up, and put him on his back. Sometimes the observers are able to say, “That was sorta like technique-x so that must be what he just threw.” But the competitor wasn’t thinking “technique-x” during the thing. He just threw the man down and later said, “Yeah, I must have meant to do that technique.” See the following video for some examples of this type of surprise throw in judo – particularly the guy with the single leg picks towards the end.

This sort of spectacular inventiveness in the heat of battle seems to occur more with amateur wrestlers than with judoka. Why would this be? It’s not like the domains of these two arts are really significantly different - you grapple standing and grounded with the goal of getting the guy on his back or throwing him onto his back.

One possibility is the system of groupings into which techniques are placed in judo. For instance, the judo guy has to learn a half-dozen specific hip throws, each of which looks significantly like some model presented by the instructor, and each of which is recognizably different from the others. The wrestler, on the other hand, might learn one or two principles (like back-under or hip-heist) that allow him to lift and project the man using the hips as a fulcrum. So, the wrestler does not have to try to identify the tactical situation and figure out which pigeonhole to put it in (which specific throw to use). The wrestler has to figure out how to adapt his body to the situation to express a few basic principles.

Most judo guys (I’m guessing here) would probably know significantly more named techniques than experience-matched amateur wrestlers, but the wrestlers seems to be able to more easily adapt more creatively to competition situations.

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Hmmm. Makes you think…I’ve demonstrated in previous posts (click on 'Divine Nine below) that of the forty to sixty-something named throws in judo, virtually all competition throws come from about nine or ten of these throws. Might we do better teaching just a few basic forms of throwing than with a throwing syllabus of four-to-six times that many techniques?

Are you sure?

Boxers, do you think you could hit these guys enough?
Any TKD folks out there want to kick them?
Aikidoka, how long could you evade them?
Karateka, how about a one-punch kill?
Judoka, could you throw an an ippon?
BJJ guys, think you could tap them?
Bagua? Savate?
When it comes down to it, would you even be sure if you had a knife?



Maybe? Maybe not. It's worth thinking about.